Talk:2012 Group Project 1

From Embryology

From the Course Coordinator

2012 Projects: Vision | Somatosensory | Taste | Olfaction | Abnormal Vision | Hearing

--Mark Hill 09:58, 18 September 2012 (EST) This is a recent review on vision. JCB content allows reuse.

--Mark Hill 08:17, 16 August 2012 (EST) This small section at the top of your discussion page allows me to easily distribute information to all students looking at the group discussion page.

Please do not delete, edit or move the template {{Template:2012GroupDiscussion}} from the top of this page.

1. Search:

2. History

  • Embryology History Explore the rich history of sensory research. In particular look through the available images that may complement the text. Any of this material can be used, you should cite the original paper or textbook. Gray | 1921 Bailey and Miller

--Mark Hill 09:58, 18 September 2012 (EST) This is a recent review on vision. JCB content allows reuse.

  • Introduction
  • Research history?
  • Developmental time line?
  • Current research
  • Useful links
  • Glossary
  • Image gallery summary
  • References

Group evaluations

Overall, the key points relating to Vision and it’s development are being addressed at this stage by the page. There are some interesting descriptions that are easy to follow. However, in it’s entirety, the descriptions has to be sieved through in order to extract specific information. For example, the functions of each structure has been included in the development of each structure. While this provides a nice way for information to flow, it can be better received if function was separated from development and put under a separate sub-heading before development.

The history section, being in it’s early stages is off to a good start including some important contributions that date back to ancient times, which I find amazing. However, I would suggest, placing this information in the form of a table because full sentences are not necessary to achieve an understanding. It would also be important to include the specific advancements achieved from each moment, with relation to the eye. For example, what contribution did Aristotle’s dissection of the embryo, make to our understanding of the eye and it’s development? Does the age of the embryo tell us something?

Heading suggestions for the history:





Moreover, the inclusion of the historic images are unique to the other groups and hence will spark an interest in readers. In saying this, the use of descriptions and appropriate titles will aid the readers in appreciating them from a contextual point of view.

Additionally, the scattered placement of images on the page makes it difficult to follow certain sections and properly use the images to aid my understanding. I suggest revising the method used and possibly having clear distinctions between images belonging to different sections. I.e. Some run over two sections.

I like how each component of the eye’s development is described separately giving us time to appreciated each one individually. However, the timeline of development is also important and sometimes, two components are dependent on each other for growth and development. This maybe something to consider when editing this section, so that an understanding that the entire process of growth and development overlaps amongst structures. A video might suffice here in place of text. Also, the importance of genes in patterning is not clear.

Current research section needs to built upon, maybe with some simple descriptions of the types of research taking place, their potential applications and limitations as well as the use of images that might help explain the conclusions of the project. Finally, the glossary needs to be expanded upon but so far the definitions are nice and simple for anyone to understand.

Good luck!

Great eye image at the start to capture attention. It's nice to see that it has the correct referencing and copyright.

The introduction is very clear and simple to read. Overall the written content is easy to understand and provides sufficient detail to cover the developmental stages of the eye and associated structures like the optic nerve and lacrimal glands.

The images throughout the project were very useful because they complement the text nicely. The student drawn diagrams made the optic vesicle formation easier to understand. However, I think the labels are a bit small - you can really only read them if you click on them and see the larger version. If you can put some labels on the orientation (such as the ventral side, posterior side, etc), that would be great too. Can you also put a reference as to where you got the information to draw these images from?

The images you got from the 'Atlas of development of man volume 2', can you put the copyright up? Not many textbooks allow using their images but if it is allowed for this book, you should definitely include the copyright there.

Sections that seemed incomplete are history and current research. with the current research information you uploaded, can you add a bit more text just to summarize what the study found out? There's a picture there with some description but it would be good if you can put into dot points what the significant findings are.

It would also be good if you can write something on the visual cortex of the brain. I think it links in with the section on Optic nerve. Maybe mention some of the genes related to the various stages of eye development. It doesn't have to be a lot of detail - just suggest what stage of development the genes are responsible for.

It would be good if you used more research papers instead of using the textbooks. If you are using the textbooks, it's good to track down the references the textbook used. This means you can put the relevant research papers as reference instead.

--Z3332863 16:08, 23 September 2012 (EST)

- the opening is very catchy with the diagram

- good brief introduction although it might help to give a brief description of the different parts.

- Since you have no other tables maybe put the history section in the table so it breaks up the text.

- It might be better to make the images a little bigger so we can see the labels. Also with the images for ‘formation of primary optic vesicles’ you might want to fix the way it’s laid out on the page --- may be put it in a table with a description of what each labelled part contributes to. Also there is no description bellow the pictures either. All the pictures in the development area looks very clustered so break it up with text.

-Large section of the optic nerve development ad retina development seems to have no references. But a lot of good detail is present which shows that you have researched. Although try to use articles rather than books.

- The student drawn images have tiny labels so fix that up maybe and also add copyright information.

- Fig 4 and 5’s formatting should be fixed so they are either side to side or broken up by text. Same goes with fig 6 and 7 – needs copyright info.

- In the current research section a detail of what the research is about and how it is helpful can be given.

- Try using less websites and more journal articles.

- Sections of ciliary body, iris and lens development could use some more detail. The section on iris has the development time in months…it will be beneficial if you kept it in weeks to be consistent with the rest of the parts. The section on lens, aqueous chamber and cornea doesn’t have any development time associated with it which might be useful too.

- I’m aware that you cant do abnormal section in detail but you can still mention some abnormalities in a section without going into heavy detail.

Overall it is a good page but formatting of the pictures and their placement has to be fixed. Some more text should be added to the development section of iris, lens, eyelids etc.

--Z3333794 09:18, 23 September 2012 (EST)

Firstly, the picture at the top immediately shows us the topic you are discussing: vision. This is good, but you might want to decrease the size slightly by stating the number of pixels in your file description. Your introduction includes the anatomy of the eye, which you should probably put under a separate heading. Expand the introduction a little and tell us what you will be presenting on your site.

The history is quite short – aim for more significant dates and discoveries and try to put them in an organised table. Within your history section you have images relating to development of the optic vesicle and lens. It seems like these should be incorporated in your next section on development. Good images though, but this time increase the size so the reader doesn’t have to open every single one of them to read the labels.

It seems like most work has gone into the section of development, which is good because we are focussing on the development of vision! The content relates really well and shows research has been done. There are a few sentences that strongly suggest they have been researched, however they are not references. This is in particular for the optic nerve and retina sections. Again, make sure the labels on the images can be read without having to open the file. You may also want to put the images together (optic nerve section) so the reader can easily see the changes happening during development. It is really good that you refer to the images within your text. The second half of your development section could do with a few images to complement the text. I personally think you should expand upon the lens development, because this is an important structure of the eye. What happens after migration into the embryo? If you find some related molecular information, eg. essential transcription factors, you could provide a brief explanation of these too and the role they play in vision development.

You started on your current research and a few references are present, as well as an image. I do not know what this image is and there is pretty much no text explaining any research that is currently undertaken. Please expand upon this! The links should probably be listed under the heading ‘external links’ and as you expand upon certain sections, please keep adding to the glossary. For instance, I could not find the term ‘neuroblastic layer’ in the glossary (from the retina section).

With all of your images: please provide a title, description, source, copyright information, student image template. Some of your references will also need to be changed to avoid errors, citation of webpages and doubling-up of references. See the ‘editing basics’ on the embryology website.

Hope this helps!

In regards to the information presented (outcomes 1 and 9), as the project is still in progress it is understandable that some areas are incomplete. There is so far good, concise information on the structure of the development of the eye and the structures involved in vision. It would be useful to include information on the genetic factors involved in vision development as well as have a section explaining the processes involved with vision. Also, for the Current Research section (outcome 5), it would be better to explain the aims and findings of the research papers cited rather than just referencing the papers and images without describing their significance to research progress. In terms of peer teaching (outcome 4), the page contains a good balance between technical terms and simple language for understanding on the development of structures for vision; additionally, the inclusion Glossary helps to clarify any technical terms.

The most striking part of the layout (outcome 2) is the use of images to demonstrate the development of structures involved in vision. This is great because it makes the page interesting and provides a visual understanding on the development of the eye. However, at times the images could be better placed: for example, in the introduction the pictures appear stacked on top of one another. Additionally, the images in the introduction show similar structures, so perhaps select only one to better aid the flow and appearance of the page. Throughout the page, the images utilised could be provided with more description and linked to the text in order to improve flow and enhance written explanation. Perhaps some information, such as the timeline, could be sorted into a table to improve the layout.

In regards to outcome 3, some of the information provided (e.g. in the section on Development) is not referenced. Additionally, some of the references in the Reference list need to be formatted correctly with author, date, title of the page, publisher (if required) and any other necessary information. It would be useful to follow the style of the automatic default referencing.

Hope the feedback helps and all the best with your project!

Group Assessment Criteria:

  1. The key points relating to the topic that your group was allocated are clearly described The introduction explains why the eye is important and lists the anatomical structures, however there is no indication that this project page is about the development of the eye!
  2. The choice of content, headings and sub-headings, diagrams, tables, graphs show a good understanding of the topic area. The project predominantly focuses on the development of the eye, and goes into detail the development of each individual structure. There are also a lot of student-drawn images and diagrams of developmental stages which shows a good understanding of the topic area.
  3. Content is correctly cited and referenced. There is no copyright notices for any of the images and they all lack explanations.
  4. The wiki has an element of teaching at a peer level using the student’s own innovative diagrams, tables or figures and/or using interesting examples or explanations. The text is easy to understand and there are many student-drawn diagrams, which makes the content more interesting to read.
  5. Evidence of significant research relating to basic and applied sciences that goes beyond the formal teaching activities. I would say the information provided satisfies the aims of the project, however the research does not go ‘beyond the formal teaching activities’ as it lacks additional information such as abnormalities, normal functioning etc.
  6. Relates the topics and content of the Wiki entry to learning aims of embryology. The contents and topics are strongly related to the learning aims of embryology.
  7. The content of the wiki should demonstrate to the reader that your group has researched adequately on this topic and covered the key areas necessary to inform your peers in their learning. All the content provided is well researched and relevant to the aims of the project. They key areas are well described.

Additional points:

  • I feel that this page would benefit from a timeline or ‘weekly development’ table that briefly describes what structures are developed in each week. This would provide a good summary of the content as well as allow reader to be able to understand how the development of each structure relates to each other.
  • Good referencing of images throughout project page – relating images to content
  • Less paragraphs, more tables, bullet points, emphasize certain important points
  • History & research sections look incomplete.

The key points are Cleary described and Topics have been divided in an efficient way allowing maximum information and an extensive insight into each of these segments, although at this stage there is not enough detail for each.

There is a substantial amount of visual stimulus although the quality of these stimuli is questionable.

Proper citation is evident however; there is a minority of untidy citations along with no copy write information for a certain image.

Significant, deep research is not evident, I believe more research is required; There is a respectable attempt to relate content to learning aims of embryology.

To improve more information on each topic is required, review of visual displays and copy write information is essential.

--Z3330795 10:20, 24 September 2012 (EST)

The layout of the page is relatively good. If anything it appears little too image heavy at the moment. On the note of images, the referencing is good but don't forget to include the student template note with each image. The inclusion of some student drawn images in great to see but it might be an idea to make the labels larger as they are hard to read. The use of subheadings is great, a really logically well set out page. The references need a bit of work, some are spread sporadically throughout the page and some in the references section just list the URL along with the error on reference number 13.

The introductory is brief but alright. However the first two images are largely similar, not sure why both need to be included. Perhaps if possible it would be nice to link each of the main anatomical bullet points you have listed in your introduction to their associated developmental paragraph further down the page.

The History of development is coming along nicely but perhaps would be easier to read if it was in the format of a table. Also the Atlas of the Development of Man needs to be properly referenced with the author in the reference section. It would be nice to have some information relating to the pictures uploaded in this section.

The section on Development is well done and it is interesting to look at the individual development of each structure. It might be an idea to include some more references to when each structural development occurs. Current Research really needs some more content. The glossary is a nice addition and helpful. Hope this helps

The top image of the eyes is a great idea to introduce an audience to your topic. The copyright of the image is there along with the reference. However, the hand drawn image do not have a reference as to where you located the information for the diagram. The images further down the page which are referenced to a textbook had no copyright associated with it. It is important to make sure that the textbook is not protected by copyright laws before placing those images in your page. Referencing and copyright needs to be included in every image on the page, many of your images don't have the necessary information.

The information is easy to understand, however it is difficult to locate. Things seems to be out of place. Try not to include images on both side of the page, it is highly distracting as they alternate far too often. I also noticed that development and function were both under one heading. This made things a little confusing as the information between the two topics were shared in the same paragraph.

What I found to stand out were the historic images. These are a great addition to the page. Having said that, they're often difficult to understand and therefore explaining the images would be great. The history, current research and glossary sections all seem to be incomplete, these need to be worked on.

Something that i found to be really well explained was the developmental stages of the eye and associated structures. This is very important as the topic is about the development. Although the information for this section seems to be great, there seems to be a lack of references, it is important to cite where you derived the information from.

Overall the page seems to have the right information, however, just remember to include the right references, make your diagrams and labels more visible and try to organise your information into tables or dot points to make it easier to follow.

Hope this information helps

There is a good balance of images and text throughout the page. Prior to final assessment the page outline and formatting of image and text positioning is required. The first image at the top the page, requires correct referencing and acknowledgement that it has been uploaded as part of a student assignment. This is also required for the image titled “Eyediagramcolour1”.

Since the previous lab, held in week 9, it is positive to see that the group has altered some of the uploaded image information, with particular reference to the self-drawn/uploaded images.

The area of the page which shows that there is a “useful links” heading and an external link within the current research section, should be placed or moved into the external links section at the bottom of the page with the appropriate information that Dr. Hill has required for placing external links on a page. Also, the references within the ‘current research’ section may also need to be apart of the reference list.

I found this page visually appealing and I liked that this group have included an image gallery section. The use of the external links were appropriate to the topic and that the extent of the glossary for now is good, however, by the final evaluation would potentially need to be larger. Finally found that the headings for each segment of the broader topic were well positioned and relevant.


Overall the detail within Group 1's page is very informative and very well set out, having each individual part of the eye named with information about the development of that certain feature is great. The information about the iris, cornea, choroid and sclera, eyelids and lacrimal glands were undeveloped compared to that of the retina and optic nerve. Even though the retina and optic nerve are the sensory receptors, the other components of the eye should have an equal amount of information about the development because without these parts the sensory part would not function at its best.

I would recommend having developmental pictures that you have placed at the beginning of the page places around the block of writing in the iris, lens, and chamber area just to break up the text and to show the development of each part in stages. The History section, as they stated has more to come, and I hope there is more to come for the current research as well as both sections need more information. I feel that the images, while being hand drawn, were not sufficient enough to communicate the full detail of the developmental process and there were not enough references to validate the statements that were made throughout the page. Overall however it was a very well written project with a well thought out progression from introduction to finish.

Group discussion

Have you guys looked at some sources about the development of vision in embryos? Do you have any idea how you want to divide up the topics we can work on? --Z3370664 13:31, 21 August 2012 (EST)

Hey everyone, I haven't looked at anything yet, sorry! Hopefully end of this week/start of next I'll start adding things. Ben --Z3373894 19:33, 21 August 2012 (EST)

Heya. Thinking that we should do a time line rather than dividing up the different structures of the eye. Em --Z3254758 10:40, 22 August 2012 (EST)

I looked through all the embryology textbooks I have (the two prescribed texts, as well as another book) and they all divide up the eyes into different parts and talks about how each of the parts develop, rather than a timeline. So i was thinking, maybe we could focus more on describing how each of the different parts of the eye develop, and then we could do a timelime briefly at the end? (By the way, you're not supposed to mention your name) --Z3370664 10:21, 29 August 2012 (EST)

Sounds good. I have put a few suggestions for the different parts of the eye on the page. We need code-names if you don't want to put your name so that we know who is saying what. Please don't put any information on the actual page without referencing it.--Z3254758 10:45, 29 August 2012 (EST)

We also can't use content from Dr Hill's pages. The photos that are on our page are great, but we will have to replace them. We also desperately need to divide the sections between us. Maybe 2 people do 5 eye structures each, one person does intro and history, and another does current research and useful links? --Z3254758 11:45, 29 August 2012 (EST)

The textbooks are going to be really useful, I'd say divide it up the way the textbook does it. Sorry guys, didn't realise we can't use Mark's stuff. Will look for similar images later -.- --Z3373894 11:51, 29 August 2012 (EST)

Also I'm happy to do 5 eye structures :) I think. --Z3373894 11:56, 29 August 2012 (EST)

Okay guys, I'm doing retina and optic nerve, lens, eyelids, choroid and sclera. Em (z3254758) is doing the other structures (we can reassign if either of us find a structure that is excessively complicated). That leaves intro/history and current research/useful links. Also!!! I have to do a marine science camp in the mid sem break and so won't be available to make contributions. Sorry but I'll keep adding as soon as uni goes back. --Z3373894 12:13, 29 August 2012 (EST)

Awesome, no worries. Thanks for your contribution so far, let me know if we need to redistribute. Enjoy your camp! --Z3254758 16:08, 29 August 2012 (EST)

Hey guys I'm really sorry for the late notice but I've dropped this Embryology course. Tried logging on a few days ago to let you know what was going on but the server wouldn't connect. So sorry to stuff you all around. Goodluck with everything. Emma --Z3330686 10:55, 5 September 2012 (EST)

So does this mean we only have 3 people in our group now?

Anyway, I'm sorry i haven't contributed yet. I had been looking up articles and reading them to help you with the structures, but haven't written up notes yet, as I have so many other assignments to do that are all due soon. I am happy to do intro/history and current research/useful links. And after i do those parts, I can help you guys with the structures if there are any structures you're stuck with. I can help look for images too. I'll also do a brief timeline/overview of eye development after you guys finish the structures. I'll post up the links to the articles I found that you might find useful for the structures. --Z3370664 12:22, 10 September 2012 (EST)

Oh my goodness the more I research the more confused I get! I keep finding conflicting information- hence why some things are in capitals and italics and why I haven't put references for everything. Am hoping you guys can shed some light? For the iris I had one resource that said two completely opposite things about what it develops from :S :S :S

Yeah I know, I've had similar problems of conflicting sources :( I'm mostly relying on the online textbooks because surely they can't be wrong? And all the papers have a large emphasis on the genetics and it's hard to find a simple anatomical description. We can come back later and fix anything that's unresolved. --Z3373894 14:35, 17 September 2012 (EST)

P.S. nice eye collage at the top whoever posted it. Adds a nice human touch. It's really cool to look at! :)

yay I'm glad you like it! :) This is the problem, I was confused about the conflicting statements so I went to a textbook and that was what said the two different things... in the specific section it said one thing and then in the summary it said the opposite o_O trying a few other textbooks at the moment. Ya am very sick of reading about genetics.--Z3254758 21:49, 17 September 2012 (EST)

Hey i found a good article which i think you might find useful. It also has nice images. I want to email them and ask permission to use their images in our project.

To read the article, Log into the UNSW library and search 'Eye development' by Jochen Graw

Current Topics in Developmental Biology, 2010, Vol.90, pp.343-386

--Z3370664 23:49, 17 September 2012 (EST)

Well peer review is tomorrow and the page is still somewhat lacking haha... It would be good to get something under the headings "research history" and "current research" even if it's only a few sentences so the space isn't completely blank. I'll try and add a few more things to my sections tomorrow morning. I had a quick look at the Jochen Graw article and it has good summaries of genetic stuff as well. Once I get all the anatomical stuff down on my sections I'll come back and add genetic stuff at the end if I get time. --Z3373894 17:16, 18 September 2012 (EST)

Hey guys, I went through the page and fixed some formatting issues with the images. Also went through my images and added descriptions, copyright and the "student template" thing - don't forget to do that to all the images you upload. I also took some of the advice in the comments and enlarged my labels and added an orientation to my images. Don't forget that according to the course timetable that this project is due at the end of the lab next week!!! That's Wednesday 3rd October. So keep adding stuff!!! --Z3373894 17:15, 25 September 2012 (EST)

Okay I also just went through and fixed up the references we have so far, so instead of having the same reference come up multiple times in the reference list it just comes up once. Here's the help page that tells you how to do it:

I think we should try and get content from all of the potential papers you guys posted below on this page so we get a nice, well rounded reference list. We've already referenced the textbooks several times (I am mostly guilty of this - sorry), so let's try and reference the same info in papers instead. Also try and get the reference info right the first time - it takes ages to go back and do it!!! --Z3373894 18:16, 25 September 2012 (EST)

Potential Resources

<pubmed>16959249</pubmed> <pubmed>11687490</pubmed> <pubmed>22219630</pubmed> <pubmed>19449303</pubmed> <pubmed>11069887</pubmed> <pubmed>12223402</pubmed>

--Z3254758 17:58, 4 September 2012 (EST)

Lhx2 links the intrinsic and extrinsic factors that control optic cup formation:

Innervation of the Mouse Cornea during Development:

Fibromodulin Regulates Collagen Fibrillogenesis During Peripheral Corneal Development:

Development of extraocular muscles require early signals from periocular neural crest and the developing eye:

Eye Morphogenesis and Patterning of the Optic Vesicle:

Targeted deletion of Dicer disrupts lens morphogenesis, corneal epithelium stratification, and whole eye development:

Anterior eye development and ocular mesenchyme:

--Z3370664 12:31, 10 September 2012 (EST)