Difference between revisions of "Talk:2009 Group Project 3"

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==Constructive Criticism==
 
==Constructive Criticism==
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--[[User:Z3258567|Sando Rashed]] 09:06, 1 October 2009 (EST)hey good work with the page, lots of good pieces of information, i really like the timeline and stages of the embryonic development but you might want to add just a few words to each stage just to make the page suitable for all people to read (someone with no background will look at it and understand it), with your background info i like the idea but there isnt really a sentence structure, you might want to put it in dot form as that what is sounds like when reading it. you might want to add a glossary to the bottom of the page and add words that are unknown to people to make the reading more comprehensive. you might want to add some more photos to the current research just to make that part of the assignment a bit more appealing as there is a lot of information to grasp there. with your referencing, it is incorrent format you might want to go on the internet and look up harvard referencing (http://www.unisa.edu.au/ltu/students/study/referencing/harvard.pdf)but overall good job :D
  
 
--[[User:Z3218146|Julianna Lam]] 01:22, 1 October 2009 (EST)  
 
--[[User:Z3218146|Julianna Lam]] 01:22, 1 October 2009 (EST)  

Revision as of 10:06, 1 October 2009

Constructive Criticism

--Sando Rashed 09:06, 1 October 2009 (EST)hey good work with the page, lots of good pieces of information, i really like the timeline and stages of the embryonic development but you might want to add just a few words to each stage just to make the page suitable for all people to read (someone with no background will look at it and understand it), with your background info i like the idea but there isnt really a sentence structure, you might want to put it in dot form as that what is sounds like when reading it. you might want to add a glossary to the bottom of the page and add words that are unknown to people to make the reading more comprehensive. you might want to add some more photos to the current research just to make that part of the assignment a bit more appealing as there is a lot of information to grasp there. with your referencing, it is incorrent format you might want to go on the internet and look up harvard referencing (http://www.unisa.edu.au/ltu/students/study/referencing/harvard.pdf)but overall good job :D

--Julianna Lam 01:22, 1 October 2009 (EST)

- the history part has way too much information. it needs to be more concise.

-the images used for staging and timeline is awesome. set out very cleary and very easy to read and understand

- the mutation table is a very good idea although you can probably fix it up a bit so the information doesnt look as crammed up.

- great current research!


--Angama Yaquobi 20:48, 30 September 2009 (EST)

Congrats everyone, your team has done a great job. The project looks amazing.

  • The info in the introduction is very informative especially under the heading of "Why Zebrafish".
  • The images used in the timeline and stages of embryonic development is awesome and clicking on the period name gives alot of great information. It also makes the webpage look very nice and tidy- its structed very well.
  • The section for genetics was very well informative especially comparing the zebrafish genome with human genome.
  • I would recommend to add more images related to each section to make the webpage look more visually eye-catchy.

Overall it was a great effort by all the team members.well done.


--Jenny Guy 18:30, 30 September 2009 (EST)

Improvements:

  • Some of your sentences sound as though you've cut and pasted them from websites. For example, do you guys really used "combing" in your vocabulary.
  • The history goes more into finding out about the scientists instead of what they fully achieved. Try focus on that instead of the scientists preferences etc.
  • Throughout the entire page there isn't much referencing at all! You'll have many paragraphs which dont refer to any article/text. You either need to include referencing in your text or at least place an number in reference to where you found out that information (corresponding with your bibliography).
  • You need to reference your "websites" in the bibliography. By typing the url you are not referencing. Most of the articles are referenced so make sure you use the same system with the websites.
  • You used youtube??? oh dear. I can understand you using it to gain an understanding but that cannot be used as a reference. seriously, anyone can upload it. So instead find out WHO uploaded it and find out if they published it on a RELIABLE website. Copyright?
  • One of the outcomes Mark has asked for is a list of "links to related resources/research laboratories?" Where is this?


--Sadaf Masood 15:29, 30 September 2009 (EST)Hey Group 3! Congrats on your project guys, well done! Ill just list down few things that i liked and what could be done better:

1. Needs glossary guys, so some of the scientific jargon can be understood easily

2. Your timeline is excellent, it has great pictures, maybe a little description along with it might make it more clear.

3. The project only has four sections, i m sure we need to do a bit about fertilization and detalied embryonic steps as well

4. References to specific articles are provided which is very informative if anyone wants to do an in-depth analysis.

5. Formatting is impressive and page layout is great!

overall, this is an awesome project which is simple and straight-forward. Great work guys! And Best of Luck!!!



--Joe Nassif 17:36, 29 September 2009 (EST)

Group 3 well done impression effort , resulting in a great formatted page, which summarises the requirements of the outcomes needed, it was straight to the point and briefly covered the main topic in regards to the zebrafish.

- The assignment has come together extremely well only a few minor edit here and there needed.

- The illustrations regarding (Timeline and Stages of Embryonic Development) are great, it extremely enhances the wiki page assignment allowing the readers to visualize the information which stand out in regard to the information it come along great. The links to specfic research laboratories have been made throughout the information giving the reader additional information to learn more on the topic which is a great reference.

Suggestions to improve the assignment:

1. illustrations such as :"Development.jpg" are should be replace which more appropriate images which are more relevant with the topic and the illustrations should be more regarded in the information for the reader to relate and understand visually.


2. The Genetics information should include specfic genetic and chromosomal imagery revealing the structure of chromosome in comparison to humans and should identify why they are different.


3. Current research information should reveal a brief explanation on how zebrafish research has impacted human embryology and how it used and why it used to improve or help develop research programs.

4. Referencing is a problem, specfic referencing is needed as the university has guidelines. Visit this webpage I think it will help: www.lc.unsw.edu.au/onlib/ref_apa.html for help with APA referencing.


5. Glossary will also help the readers to understand specfic terms and make the assignment flow better.

Impressive wiki page, minor editing should be undertaken but overall the outcome were covered. --Joe Nassif 17:36, 29 September 2009 (EST)




--Mitchell Mathieson 09:42, 25 September 2009 (EST)Overall very very nice. Was nice and succinct, and easy to read. The information was relevant, and the current research interesting. Maybe the stages on different pages was a bit difficult to read; I would have liked to have seen at least a bit of information on the main page, which expands to more on your secondary page. The formatting of the references I think needs to be looked at maybe.

--Elide Newton 14:38, 26 September 2009 (EST) HELLO GROUP 3: Congratulations on a great assignment. Each section is equally proportioned, and well represented visually. My one point of constructive criticism would be to the section on current research. Your information is great, as it shows how the zebrafish is being used as a model for different areas of research. The one thing which would improve this would be to include the dates of these research papers, just so the reader can know how recent the work is. maybe introduce the research as Person et al (2009) has used the zebrafish to.... Also are there any pictures on this research? Just because research language is so technical, some pictures would break it up. Hope this helps you group 3.

--Jin Lee 16:06, 26 September 2009 (EST) congratulations to Group3! this is a really great assignment. overall, all the sections are well represented visually. I liked the history part mostly! easy to read! Maybe the current research section can be improved by adding some images and relevant links. I found zebrafish is very interesting!thank you

--Vishnnu Shanmugam 19:32, 26 September 2009 (EST)Well done Zebra fish group. You've put together a well balanced assignment. The images under "Timeline and Stages of Embryonic Development" are impressive, really make the assignment stand out and the text flows nicely. I also noticed the links to researchers and research laboratories have been made throughout the text and because they are under specific headings, the reader will know what the information in the link will focus on. Additions to improve the assignment:

- there is some irrelevant images in the the text; the images "A 1981 issue of Nature journal" & "Development.jpg" are Unnecessary and could be replaced with others that support the text or summarize complex processes. (eg. motor neuron development in zebrafish or a time line showing the evolution in the use of zebrafish). The second image "Development.jpg" is better replaced with the image "A Zebrafish Pigment Mutant" as it is relevant to the text. The current research does not mension or explain the Zebrafish Pigment Mutant and thus is Unnecessary there.

- The Genetics section could do with an image of zebrafish chromosomes. This can be a simple hand drawn diagram and can be compared to the human chromosomal makeup.

- The current research section could use a description of how zebrafish research has impacted human embryology.

-The assignment needs to be properly referenced. see www.lc.unsw.edu.au/onlib/ref_apa.html for help with APA referencing.

- A Glossary would also complement the text.

Overall very impressive, only needs minor editing.


-Emily Wong 11:04, 27 September 2009 (EST) To begin with, you have done a great job group 3. It is a well researched, structured and organized page. The student contribution to the work is fairly even. The condensation of the written content is done well, with the combining of the timeline and stages in one section and extensive use of visual representation. However, information is not provided when clicking on the pictures as to what is in them. A description or explanation of what is occurring in each stage or at each time point would improve this project. Some of the images used have not been referenced properly in the image pages. Referencing is good and an extensive reference list has been provided. The content provided is very detailed by still brief and relevant to each section. This project could also be improved by adding some examples of current research and also referencing information throughout the written content. Perhaps an inclusion of a Pubmed search link in the current research section would be a good idea so that viewers can see what other research has been done using the zebrafish.


--Gang Liu 16:17, 27 September 2009 (EST)This is a very informative, well constructed and concise wikipage. It has demonstrated consistency throughout the page. There are a number of major subheadings have been included history, timeline, development, genetics and current embryology research as well as hand drawing. In addition, it has demonstrated extended research of literatures. For example, by dividing the history section in a number of subheadings such as "in the beginning", "Charles Kimmel", "Hesitations", etc. This has indicates the in-depth understanding of zebrafish embryo model use. It allows the reader to appreciate story behind the experiment, as well as scientists' thinking process and thoughts. "...there was no gene cloning and little understanding about genes, making the whole zebrafish project almost a gamble to follow through with. This put much strain on the funding given to Streisinger and the credibility of his work...".

The graphic delivery of timeline and stages are very self-explanatory and powerful. A picture explains a thousand words. It makes the section easy to follow, and interesting to read also.

However, this project can be improved by considering the following points.

  • I found genetic and current embryology section were very lengthy and wordy, and lack of pictures. In addition, referencing in these two sections were inconsistent with previous sections;
  • Lack of glossary list. Such as "oxidative phosphrylation", "N-ethyl-N-nitrosourea (ENU)", "Diploid" and "Haploid" need to provide meanings;
  • Inconsistent referencing. Name of author need to keep in alphabetical order. Also articles and web based materials are mixed. The first five references were inconsistent with the rest in style;

Last few words. I enjoyed reading it, learned something out of it. Big thumb up for me.

--Thomas Dangerfield 13:54, 28 September 2009 (EST)Well done guys! Nice, visually stimulating assignment! Just a few points about possibly having a little more written info on the timeline, just to help explain what is in each image. Also some pictures of the chromosomes of the zebrafish would be a handy visual tool. This may just be a little picky, but i notice that you have a few heading issues:

- Beginning not Begining. (In the begining..)

- Genetics of the Zebrafish and Embryology, and the you have a 'Genetics and Embryology' a couple of headings down which seems a little unnecessary.

Just as a hint on being thorough, maybe a glossary could have been included, as well as formatting for your references. Still, a well presented assignment has been done here!


--Sumaiya Rahman 16:06, 28 September 2009 (EST) Hey guys. Well done on the assignment overall. It was interesting to read about the zebrafish. The page was well introduced. It is good that you broke up the information using subheadings. This makes the page a lot easier to read as it breaks up the big slabs of text. I think it has been mentioned, but there are a couple of spelling mistakes. Also the sentence “This however did not affect Neurologists such as Kimmel as they were not much worried about the relevance of their work” needs to be fixed up. This is only a minor error. The history section could look a little bit less messy if the pictures were placed on the same side. “The fish is a frog... is a chicken... is a mouse” picture is very cute! But maybe a little bit too big because we need to scroll across to see it (or is that just me?). You have some great references and links and a great timetable and stages section with good visuals. The genetics and current research sections have a lot of text, maybe finding a way of making these sections more visually appealing would help the readers. Also including a glossary would help. Overall nice work!

--Carly Mooney 11:43, 29 September 2009 (EST) Impressive, it looks as though much time and effort went into making the page easy to read yet informative.A few suggestions:

  • some of the images I thought weren't entirely relevant, e.g.A 1981 issue of Nature journal" & "Development.jpg". maybe even crop it so that it is just the covers photograph in the image, rather than the entire journal.
  • Maybe decrease the size of the fish is a frog is a chicken is a mouse jpg
  • Maybe move the genetics picture further down as it is very similar and close to the timeline and stages section
  • I think a glossary may help
  • The references to be referenced properly, and the articles should have the pubmed number with their reference
  • a few grammatical errors that need to be fixed up

These are all minor thoughts, well done.

--Begum Sonmez 14:53, 30 September 2009 (EST) Hey Group 3. Let me start off by saying that I found your project on the Zebrafish unique. Under the history section:

  • There were some sentences that were unnessesary such as 'Streisinger was not the only scientist working on the embryologic development of the zebrafish.'
  • It was different and iteresting to learn about the different views of Streisinger and Kimmel. I enjoyed that fact that the structure wasn't entirely date than author than finding, but the inclussion of 'disputes and uncertainties' ('...there was no gene cloning and little understanding about genes, making the whole zebrafish project almost a gamble to follow through with.') as well.
  • The information flows from Streisinger to Kimmel to hesitations.
  • There is too much text bunched up under the sub-headings 'Taking the plunge', 'The Big Screen', and 'The Importance of Mutations'. Do not delete any text because I found it very interesting, but I suggest the use of Sub-sub headings, or some dot points. Another example would be to have the sub-heading as 'The Big Screen (1993-1996)'. This gets rid of some text.

The only thing that I found lacking under the Timeline/Stages section was a description of the image. I don't think a detailed descritption is necessary because the table is very well constructed. For example, state when the heart begins to develop or when it has finished developing, and place this information on the related image's page.

One of my favourite parts was the table under the Genetics section 'Mutations in Zebrafish Causing Developmental Heart Defects ' because the information is well constructed into a table format in a way that makes sense. In other words, the information is very clear. The information under 'How are mutations achieved?' was very interesting, I never before exactly thought about different ways of mutating.

I found a little problem in the first paragraph of current research section: 'Although the embryo was consistently studied continuously over the years...'. Just remove either bolded word. Some things that I think might enhance this section would be to include:

  • Some links to published articles dealing with recent experimental research.
  • Dates to identify when the research by The Laboratory of Molecular Genetics and Developmental Biology (China) was undertaken.
  • The names of people/labortaories involved on the experiments on the gene of lissencephaly LIS1. In other words, inlude a specific example of a certain group of researchers that have utilised this gene.

And finally, the video under 'eye disorders' was interesting, relevant and informative at the same time. I liked it very much. Good work Group 3.




--Mark Hill 01:44, 8 September 2009 (EST) A single image of a fish, well that really gets across the message of zebrafish development, interpret the information you have read and put it into a format that will interest the reader.

ZebraFish - Zebrafish are really cool...

I'm happy with zebrafish... never heard of them but they sound interesting :) what does everyone else think? ...Gaby Pinget

Great, who else is in our group then... Oh and i'm Sal by the way

Ok so i'm not sure who the other two are because i don't know your number but just for reference my number is z3218657. I found this cool website with some pictures of Zebrafish embryo's developing... its pretty cool...

http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/bioimages/animals/danrer/zfish-devel.htm

and this website shows all the stages and times and such good for a timeline

http://zfin.org/zf_info/zfbook/stages/stages.html


Research Topics for this week:

- Timeline and Staging (Sal)
- History of Model Use (Gaby)
- Genetics (Bronwyn)
- Current Embryology Research (Jo)

--> Share what we've learnt with the group next session.

Hey Guys I have a lot of info... and i don't think i should post it all up here because there is a lot of stuff... Mainly all about the Staging though. I am going to put up a summary of the different stages. The website i gave you before ZFIN is the zebrafish database of model organisms. its great!


Zygote Period – Lasts for 0-0.75hours Transition of one cell to two cells. Fertilisation occurs activating cytoplastimic movement. The animal poles within the cell segregate the blastodisc from the yolk cytoplasm. Segregation continues into the cleavage staging.

Cleavage Period – Lasts for 0.75-2.25 hours Transition from two cells to 128 cells After the first cleavage the blastocysts division is approx every 15 minutes.

Blastula Period – Lasts for 2.25-5.25 hours Transition from 128 cells to 50% epibolby “Epiboly, beginning in the late blastula (Solnica-Krezel and Driever, 1994), is the thinning and spreading of both the YSL and the blastodisc over the yolk cell, as you might model by pulling a knitted ski cap over your head” – Direct quote from the ZFIN website

Gastrula Period – Lasts for 5.25-10.33 hours Transition from 50% epibolby to 1-4 somites The gastrula period ends when epiboly is complete, and the tail bud has formed. Here each germ layer (endoderm, mesoderm, ectoderm) is put in the right place so that bodily organs and tissues can form in the correct locations.

Segmentation period – Lasts from 10.33 – 24 hours Transistion from 1-4 somites to Prim-5 Here dermis, vertebrae and skeletal muscle are formed

Pharyngula Period – Lasts from 24 – 48 hours Transition from Prim 5 to Long-pec The body axis begins to straighten and the fins begin to develop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hGT667ktTw

Hatching Peroid – Last from 48 to 72hours Transitions from Long-Pec to Protruding-mouth In this period, primary organ systems develop and cartilage development begins.

Larval Period – Lasts from 72hours to 30days transition from Protruding-mouth to Day 30-44 The pectoral fin continues to develop and the internal organs become more complex. Development continues.

Juvenille Period – Lasts from 30-44 days Here adult fins and pigments as well as 12 teeth develop.

AdultPeriod – Lasts90days to 2 years Full Breeding Adult.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ygcu9BRXI0 - Zebrafish heart beating!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbErcmhzUSY - alcohol effects on Zebrafish embryo

Websites used http://dev.biologists.org/cgi/content/abstract/dev.022673v1

http://www.zfic.org/classroom%20experiments/stagingindex.html

http://zfin.org/zf_info/zfbook/stages/stages.html


Hey! This is a really good site with a bunch of links relating to the different areas we have to research: http://www.sanger.ac.uk/modelorgs/zebrafish.shtml

Hey guys.... Ive found a really good picture of the zebrafish embryo development (like the human one) but I dont know how to put it up, was thinking it might be better if it was actually on the page rather than a link to get the picture. JO


well I think that I just uploaded a picture but I have no idea where to... wow I'm so lost... Maybe that's a good thing because I have a feeling that it was copy right protected... DAMN COPY RIGHT ah ha ha


Hey all, all the websites that i have put up on this page have really good images... I have emailed the three of them and asked if it was ok if i used them to put up on here and i am awaiting a reply so   
hopefully they will let us use them. Also i am having a tonne and a half of trouble uploading a InDesign Timeline image i created of the timeline and also having some issues with the net so i might 
bring them to class and see if the computers there are readable other wise i am screwed and will just have to start all over again. I have a more complete Timeline and Staging format that i have 
created as well. I'll put that up when i try and upload the image again. Peace. - Sal


Hey Hey So I got permission from Judy Cebra-Thomas to use all her images on her website which are each stage of development - YAY we just have to accredit them. So today apart from working on 
unwinding my InDesign TImeline and putting the info up in bullets i am going to start to figure out whats happening in all the images and try an upload them onto the site so hopefully tomorrow we 
will have an almost finished timeline and staging section! - Sal

Right so I've posted a link to the current sequencing status on the genetics part of our site. This updates pretty much everyday so I will be able to update ours right before submission so we have up-to-date info. This is however a minor detail so I'm writing it here to help us all remember! :) thanks


Hey guys!! please read this: I put up pictures which are really just to make it look pretty rather than add any info. Can you please tell me if you think they're stupid or not serious enough? I promise that I wont be offended! I understand if any of you think that we should take our assignment more seriously than that... it's just hard to find images for a history of zebrafish use!


I dont really get the light bulb lol. Sally were u able to get the embryo stage images as a link to the info as u wanted???? I think its a really good idea if we could do it, i think it might be a matter of asking someone who's actually good with computers to do it lol. Im still complying info for the current research section, currently in qld but i wanna have it up hopefully by this week, at least part of it anyways. Im gonna try n get some pictures but every place that ive asked think im an actual doctor lol so its been a bit hard.

Ok so not quite sure how to do the linking but i might just make it all link off the page into separate little pages... does that make sense??? Probably not but i can try explain it better on thursday. The 
images take me 1.5hours each to upload because i have to make the image in indesign, Grab it and then transform the image to a PNG file as that is one that this website allows for uploading! So they 
are coming up but ever so slowly! When i got permission to use the images i just told them I was a student studying Advance Science from UNSW. I was enrolled in an embryology course there where 
we were doing an assignment on the Embryology of Zebrafish. Could i please use your images with referencing and a link to your webpage or document. Thats kind of what i said! i'm hoping to have it 
all up and ready on thursday but might have to finish it friday night as have friends down from QLD that tend to make my place messy and have a house inspection on that ARVO!!! - Cheers SAL

Hey Sally, just so u know. I moved the websites you used to the references section so it didnt seem odd to keep it after ur info.

Hey Sally, we were thinkin about whether or not we could mix the timeline with the stages, so we thought that maybe if on the actual page we had the timeline with the pictures, then by clicking on the pictures there would be the info that u got or maybe even putting it all into a table so the pictures & info are more integrated.


Hey guys sorry i wasn't in class yesterday i had a funeral. What i was thinking of doing was actually moving all the data off the page and you click on it to go to another page which as all the info! but  
the idea of clicking on the picture and going to it sounds great. One flaw is that is it ok if i use the pictures twice because i have been cutting, altering, adding text and flattening the images so that 
they have a caption of what is happening. If i just cut another image to show each stage and then you click on that to go to it i think that could be cool as long as when you open the next page it still 
has the information and the image with the caption of what is occurring! Hope thats ok. I will work on it all tonight and hopefully finish. Its taking a lot more time than expect sorry!Sal


hey Guys so I don't know if you guys have checked the website out yet but i have been working on it today! I continued what i was doing with the linked page and have also drawn my own diagrams 
which are colour coded and easy for people to understand what is going on during the stages. I thought it looked cool. I haven't finished yet - a few more periods to go but i can't look at the screen 
any more so i will do some on tuesday night! Hope thats ok. Just wondering though about the Nature article images above it kind of comes across the screen and i was wondering if we could somehow 
move the image a little higher or enter down some spaces so that the timelines section is lower and the nature article doesn't come over the images pushing the table to the left! Let me know what you 
all think. Sal


Hey Sal, your part of the project looks great! I really like the idea of clicking onto another page to get the info. works really really well and it's really easy to understand. As for the size of the picture obscuring your section, I think that you already thumbnailed it and it looks fine. Also, do you know how to put a youtube video onto the webpage? I was able to for a project in another class and it looked good but that was much easier because it had a link to a bunch of plug ins i could use. If anyone has any ideas please let me know! Gaby

Hey Sally, ur part looks awesome!!! Everyone done forget about your references...ive tried making the ones there so far look like it was done by one person lol. I dont know how to do the youtube clip thing but i have one too, was thinking maybe we should have a section for helpful links or do u think we should just put the links in with watever section its assiciated with. Wat do u guys think??? Jo


Hmm I was just thinking that the best thing to do was to put up the links strait after whatever they're associated with, that way they are supplimentary to what the reader is looking at rather than random extras at the end. That'll prob work best, right? Gaby


Thanks guys I've put a tonne of effort in so hope it pays off! I was going to fix up the references (cause they just have my websites without being real references) but it took me a lot longer than i thought for the images as you 
can see its 5am. Nice. Yes i think linking the videos with the relevant parts is best. I have added links to videos throughout my section. Also I have made it so that when you put your mouse over the images it comes up with its own 
reference/copy right info. Also when adding a link to another website its best to name the website instead of having just the web address. Its really easy if you don't know how and i can show you how to fix them up. When we get our 
feedback from the other groups we can add and so forth before the project is actually marked which is really great. I think we need more info with the Genetics part but i figure bron is doing that tomorrow! Jo I really love your 
sections pics and info it great and to the point!Gaby, yeah i did move it hope thats ok. I do have one question though and not meaning to hurt your feelings but i'm not that keen on the drawn image of the bird,fish,frog and mouse. 
It doesn't really fit. Sorry, I mean obviously the decision is up to you, but i think it just looks a bit odd in the middle of the page because it you see it first and think , what? That was just some of the other feedback i got 
from some of my friends that i asked to check out the website and see how they could maneuver around it. So that's my major spiel. Catch ya tomorrow. Sal